3/05/2013

Contorted justifications for bigger population



The arguments put forth by Professor Ng Yew Kwang at the seminar on the Population White Paper were at best elementary. Any A level students would be able to come up with better reasons than those put up at the seminar. I was reluctant to waste my time on this but with the main media giving it so much coverage as if that view was a good and reasonable view, I would thus offer my two cents worth to join in the talk cock session. I would not put in too much effort as it is really a waste of time. So I will just talk about the few points printed in the media.
  
 .Having a large population may not necessarily be bad, as it could lead to better developed infrastructure and employment opportunities.
Who doesn’t know this? The problem is the will to provide the infrastructure and what is a large population given a limited space available.  At 5.3m, we are now living through the unhealthy aspects of space constraints and inadequate infrastructure. And the fact that the population has gone up dramatically over the last 10 years, the question to ask in response to 1 above is why aren’t the infrastructure be better developed? It cannot be due to ignorance of the lack of talent or the lack of foresight. It is elementary. The truth is that large population would not automatically lead to better developed infrastructure or adequate infrastructure.
As for employment opportunities, the question is for who? We have several hundred thousand foreign PMETs here gainfully employed but our locals, the young graduates and the older PMETs, are either unemployed or under employed. So what is the point of creating more employment opportunities for foreigners when our own citizens are not gainfully employed? I say, keep your employment opportunities if it is not to benefit the citizens.
2.   With a smaller population there would be correspondingly fewer roads and lower bus and train frequencies. The degree of competition between companies would also be less.

Let me answer the second part. With the number of transport companies we have, is there any real competition? Even if we add in a couple more, would there be real competition? Come on, let’s not kid ourselves and be an ivory tower academic.

Smaller population therefore fewer roads and bus and train frequencies. Agree. Bigger population would mean the other way. Also agree. The issue is not how many more or how many less but what is adequate or sufficient or what is comfortable for a good quality service and life style. Over providing is bad and under providing is equally bad. Bigger population with more bus and trains and higher frequencies may not be enough. Lesser population with lesser of the same may be more than enough. See the picture? The argument is quite stupid isn’t it?

3.   Through immigration, these issues would be addressed and entrepreneurial migrants would set up businesses that create hiring opportunities.

Really? We can see how inadequate our infrastructure is today with the influx of immigrants. It simply means that immigration is not the answer but something else. And only immigrants have entrepreneurial skills, can set up businesses? Bullshit lah. You mean there are no entrepreneurs among the locals?  And not all the new businesses are desirable or could complement the economy to better the quality of living here.

4.   These migrants would also “provide locally unavailable skills which make certain business ventures possible”.

Such ventures could be provided by some migrants, but the real stuff is provided by the MNCs, the big corporations, not migrants. True or not?

I think I have said enough on this seminar. One thing comes out very clearly, that the professor was looking at one side of the coin and totally ignoring the negative side that comes with high population. There are many negative consequences, bad consequences and social and political costs to pay for. So are the environment and the quality of life for having so many people squeezed into this small piece of rock, higher cost of living and stressful competition for jobs, goods and services.

To be a fair and serious piece of work or recommendations, both merits and demerits must be put out for airing for people to have an informed view of what is good or bad, or which is better.

KNN.

26 comments:

oldhorse42 said...

Hi RB,

I have to defend Prof Ng the right to speak his mind though, like you, I don't agree with his views. But I do not want to stoop so low to utter 3 letter words vulgarity on him.Lest we be called xenophia again.
In his rebuttals published in TR, the good professor said he he is already 70 years and do not hunger for tenure or a live in sinkieland. He has a better life waiting for him else where. I do not mean heaven or hell.

Anonymous said...

I say if the population doesn't want a bigger population, then so be it, why try so hard to convince them that a bigger population is required, or even good for them?

By the time 2030 comes, it is a good 15, 20 years later and those in power will have long gone.

Let the people here rot and vegetate, plant vegetables and rely on state. By the way, the state will not have much money left by then with a dwindling tax base. Then so be it. Coz that's what the people want.

Give it to them.

virgo49 said...

Ya bro, why made us suffer now. 2030 another 17 light years away. Now with this influx, we already feel the impact.

Now at Outram polyclinic with queue number 1731 and they are only registering 1711.

Saw a number of PRC families with Ah Kong,Ah Ma, spouse and daughters, sons in tow also seeking medical treatment.

Way piang, think will missed my usual Lunch time

Thorough Bred Singaporean said...

Yay I fully agree with you Redbean!
Prof Ng has obviously "REFUSED" to acknowledge the PAP govt's import of "mass foreigners" is done at the "expense" of WE THE CITIZENS OF SINGAPORE!!!!!
As an "out-of-job" PMET, who had in the past contributed at least some 30 years of income tax to this govt, I deeply deplore this PWP and even consider it as "lowest treason" of Singaporeans!

Anonymous said...

Why need to try so hard to convince the people if the population white paper is so good? If a product sells by itself, there is no need to hire snake oil salesman to try and confuse the issue.

I am very sure that if the use of such so call "respectable" academic does not change the mind of the people, a new campaign to condemn the people will be launched through the MSM soon. That is when the MIW will call the people as daft simply because we refuse to buy the snake oil.

Anonymous said...

Chin Leng & Gentlemen,

A very good morning to you all. I am writing from the field. So I will be brief, concise and deadly.

Last night attended a Chamber of Commerce dinner with Lily. I was asked by a group of Singaporeans whether there is any truth to what the good Prof shared.

I told them all what the Buddha once shared to his disciples:

“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.”

I went on to explain WHY the propagandist ST has no other choice but to make a mountain out of a molehill from this Prof.

Gentlemen let us call a spade a spade. To me this is just another attempt to engineer consent by tagging on the moniker of a man who is supposed to be a subject matter expert.

I must however emphasize the good Prof's logic is a travesty of reason and flies in the face of anecdotal evidence.

Now let us proceed to the unpleasant business of the coup de grace.

How true is it Gentlemen that a bigger population is the ONLY way for a nation to succeed?

Not true at all! Consider this. Many cities which are blessed with real and not fake elite planners have succeeded without having to put their population on steroids to grow the economy.

Stuttgart has only 0.6 million and they seem to be doing a good job churning out Mercedes, Munich with a population of about 1.2 million is home to BMW, Sweden with a population of about 0.7 million is home to Ikea, Stromberg, Saab. And incidentally has the highest patent per capita. Zurich with a population of about 0.4 million is the financial capital of the EU. They also do brisk business selling boutique chocolates and quaint cuckoo clocks.

Now Gentlemen, what is the good Prof talking about? now I want you all to consider, why does the ST even feel the need to publicize the views of someone who obvious didn't even do his research before opening his mouth.

Now you all know the truth.

A very good morning to all of you.

Darkness 2013

Anonymous said...

RB, I wanted to join you to say knn to him too.

Anonymous said...

Wow,Darkness,

This piece of news is also a hot topic in wherever you are. This obsession with adding heads into a small place is sheer insanity.

Redbean

PS. Having problem logging in from my office.

Anonymous said...

"This piece of news is also a hot topic in wherever you are."

Very much so Chin Leng. Comic relief, rib splitting writes up's even if they wordsmithed by our glorious Pravda are all most welcomed in sedentary plantation life.

You all have no possible idea how glum we would all be without the likes of the nutty Prof and the nation destroying press.

Darkness 2013

Emeritus Professor of Nonsense said...

The good professor is entitled to his views but advocating an enlarged, unsustainable population on a speck of rock the way he did,makes him look like a fool.

Frankly, I can't help but have the impression that secretly, he really think his own views are idiotic too.

As his contract is expiring soon and he is headed probably to some nice abode either in Malaysia where he was born or Australia where he lived, this parting gesture of giving his "learned" opinion on a pro Population White Paper viewpoint would be his "gift" to the country.

KNN,instead of stirring up a hornets' nest, he should have slithered into the sunset on a well deserved retirement.

Kaffein said...

Thank you Prof RB. at least your analysis is so much clearer than this Prof Ng.

Oh wait, you don't have PhD and you are not a professor. Gee i wonder how come normal people can think better and clearer than some propaganda trash.

Kaffein

Anonymous said...

dotseng put up some very convincing arguments and I especially like those stuggart, Sweden and Zurich arguments producing world famous brands like Mercedes, BMW and swiss chocolates. They all have succeeded without huge population. Why cant out elites think of that?

If we could learn from these cities and our govt can use public money and help to grow brands like Creative, Bee chun heng, Comfortdelgro, Star furniture and breadtalk, they could become bigger MNCs and employ huge swaths of our local born population and graduates, and we lessen the need to import FTs or increase our population. If Germany can do it, with small populations, so can rocky Singapore ! I m not sure how strong Germany's balance of payment is, or their unemployment rate, or strength of their Euro currency, but dotseng sure put up convincing arguments eloquently. dotseng writes and speaks very well with some well thought out ideas.

Anonymous said...

He is called Darkness (insert year). Dotseng is the blog.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FN8f6vl990

Anonymous said...

We have our OSIM chairs with a niche market. It can be marketed as the Mercedes or Rolls Royce of chairs.

Anonymous said...

OSIM and a few other home grown companies can provide employment to all our NUS NTU SIM SUTC ITE POLY grads and other non grads. All earn high salaries, no low end jobs. No need FTs. No need big population.

Anonymous said...

oldhorse42,

no one care about this professor , whether he is having good or bad intention. He put his reputation on stake to help PAP with their nonsense on the toilet paper.

All we need to do to ask this professor this simple question.

"professor,
you are high-educated and definitely know what is meant to be a professor, so with due respect, we ask you how can you can lend support to a toilet paper written without academic reference, deliberately release over 5 five days period, and BEEN AYE by lackeys and traitors subjected to Party whip on subsequent day, with one-side nonsense support by shittymedia ? Some more , can happpily pass the paper and then make amendment later.

These factors alone will damage your reputation . No ? Then may I ask your students if they can submit their research paper similar to standard of the toilet paper ? No rigorous debate, argument, but one-sided, hastily done with five days only that you get to know the paper, and you have to pass them anyway because they tell you they can amendment after you pass them."


Redbean and to all,
now can you see that one does not need to delve deep into nonsense, you just need to point out the most obvious flaw.

What do you think ?

Anonymous said...

I say keep things status quo.

Come 2030 let our future generation deal with the problem.
Maybe the problem is real, maybe it is fake. I don't know.


Anonymous said...

People should read the following brutal truth comic from Demon-cratic Singapore , and you can see how similar is the bullshit , is this so-called high-educated bullshit ?

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=483379548365712&set=a.274164129287256.58504.201649463205390&type=1&theater

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=485509471486053&set=a.274164129287256.58504.201649463205390&type=1&theater

Anonymous said...

"I say keep things status quo.

Come 2030 let our future generation deal with the problem.
Maybe the problem is real, maybe it is fake. I don't know."

It is like someone get to screw all the beautiful girls with zero consequence and responsibility, and let the others be responsible for the babies by law.

The said...

/// With a smaller population there would be correspondingly fewer roads... ///

Is this professor for real? I think he is talking through the wrong end of his alimentary canal. For crying out loud, motorists paid billions each year in motor related taxes (road tax, ERP, ARF, PARF, COE, petrol ad valorum, etc). Just a tiny fraction of these taxes are used for road construction.

Let me tell the Prof - the salary he is getting comes from the excess motor related taxes that are not used for road construction.

Fishing for your tenure?

Anonymous said...

I think he is suffering from dementia or living outside singapore for too long. If the gov is good, not greedy, not self serving, honest, efficient, talented, competent, a certain population size will boost infrastructure etc. If population size is too high, the infrastructure and people will be stressed out and jams and breakdowns will become common.

Anonymous said...

The best lies are the half truth.

Anonymous said...

if this professor just shut his fart up and stop insulting our intelligence, no one will say he is mute.

Anonymous said...

Ng Yew Kwang giving Gillian Koh and Eugene Tan a run for their money..

wat a disgrace to ntu, this fella... throw face.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Emeritus Professor of Nonsense, welcome to the blog.

I would like to apologise to Professor Ng for using the word KNN. Actually my intent was just to say tsk, tsk, without being too rude. Now so many of you also want to be rude to him.

I must admit that I have a lot of misgivings in the way he put those points across to support a bigger population. I totally disagree with them as there is no need to have high population just to have growth. And in many countries, it has been proven that high population is a curse that drags a country further down into poverty.

No malice intended, just feeling very uncomfortable by those points.



Anonymous said...

Uncle Redbean,

why do you need to apologize to prof ng for using KNN?

If prof ng had served his NS like the rest of us, he will know KNN is actually a word of endearment.

if not, KNN is also a very lenient and mildly used word for traitors who will not hesitate to trade our state for riches. in fact, in some other countries the penalty for treason is far worse than this. so he would have got off very lightly with a KNN...

so either way, there is no need to apologize to him!