5/27/2013

Tertiary education and PME jobs


This issue of jobs for Singaporeans and tertiary education has brought out a lot of controversies and a lot of angry cynicism in social media. The ministers have lately been down playing the importance of a piece of paper from the universities and even the redundancy of tertiary education. And the calls for Singaporeans to become hawkers, to become crane drivers and what not, have made the issue appears to be a deliberate policy in the making.

Contrast this with the hundreds of foreigners here with tertiary degrees and claiming to be better than the locals with their degrees and taking over the plum jobs of PMEs, the situation looks very negative and depressing for the local Singaporeans. But it is just another hard truth that the daft Sinkies must accept. It is the real world of money making.

And if one is to operate under the doctrine of pragmatism, economic expediency, bottom lines, the whole theory and possible policy make perfect sense. Why should anyone, govt or company, would want to waste money and time in training and education, a long and tedious process, when qualified, trained and experienced workers are available from the world, without having to spend a single cent? And when the door is open to the world, the availability and supply are in abundance with no holding cost. Employ on a need basis, hire and fire, it is simply so efficient and productive.

Then why the contradictory effort to have more universities? This could be used as a money spinning machine, with education as a business. It is used to train foreigners who can afford to pay the high fees. And to do so, the reputation of these universities must be world class. Go for the rankings, bring in the best academics. Once the reputation and quality have been established, the whole intake can be foreigners. The current intake of foreigners provided with scholarships is just a loss leader. Get them in, make the foreigners comfortable and they could go home to spread the words. Think this could be the business strategy and business model. I am just speculating, just looking at the business angle and the possibilities.

Singaporeans who are paying cheaper rates in universities should be discouraged. Further, why waste money on them when the employers would want the best from the world at no cost. The country too need not have to carry this education cost that is a vain effort.

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense, business cents. What do you think?

54 comments:

Anonymous said...

Actually hoh, you know, it is stupid to have universities and foreigners. Singapore should spend money on getting the most high tech weapons for defence and security. Make Singapore so safe that all the billionaires around the world will come here bringing with them all their money. Why work so hard with so many schemes ???

Anonymous said...

The govt should continue to produce more local graduates to replace the few hundred thousand foreigners here and not bring in foreigners to replace Singapore graduates in jobs.

Anonymous said...

Another good reason to vote Opposition.
Not that I need anymore.

But good for all Singaporean parents (who are subsidizing their children's education) to know.

Anonymous said...

Are our Millionaire Ministers grooming their children to be crane operators and hawkers?

According to Oxford Dictionary.
This is called hypocrisy.

George Yeo.
Is this what you are talking about?

“In the old days you’re protected by ritual, by hypocrisy, sometimes by ignorance. Today it’s no longer possible. If a picture is too perfect, you know it can’t be real.”

http://therealsingapore.com/content/former-minister-george-yeo-acknowledges-rise-new-media-and-its-effects-politics

Anonymous said...

With all the best foreign talents helping to make Singapore such a fine city, there is no need for Singaporeans liao.

Anonymous said...

CORRECTION:

"With all the best foreign talents helping to make Singapore such a fine city, there is no need for SINGAPOREAN MINISTERS liao."

Anonymous said...

What do I think? I think knn lor

Matilah_Singapura said...

Actually the ministers are more right than wrong. It is good to see that once in awhile they come out talking some REAL WORLD good sense.

Many tertiary degrees are BULLSHIT for e.g. arts, literature, the humanities -- where the fuck are your <"marketable skills"? Who the fuck is going to employ you except educational institutions, which are already in a "bubble" -- i.e. there are too many of them offering worthless courses.

Are people going to get degrees for the sheer love of learning and the "bigger picture" of actually making a career of you passion, or are they just there for the qualifications to secure them a "rice bowl"? I'm sure there are as many individuals as there are reasons, but when the talk comes down to money and jobs, let's agree that Singaporeans are more "unenlightened" and just engage in a "paper chase" for the sake of "survival" -- a narrow, unremarkable display of fear-driven self-interest.

The Entitlement Mentality is on full display:

1. The government owes me an tertiary education

2. The government is responsible for ensuring I have a job after I graduate

3. The government is responsible for providing me with an affordable flat, so I can pump out a few kids, and get the baby bonus.

4. The government is responsible for ensuring that medical costs for my family are CHEAP.

5. The government is responsible for making sure I have money when I am old and useless to society.

6. If anything goes wrong, it is the government's fault.

7. If many things don't go the way I wan, and therefore causes me to be "unhappy", I want to, and will encourage others to "change the government".

Societies flourish because of PRODUCTION. You need PRODUCERS or there won't be any goods and services, nor jobs nor any wealth creation and eventually you are DEAD from drawing down on what little and unreplenished capital you have.

Thus what is needed to kill-off the culturally-rooted entitlement mentality, and to foster more individualistic spirit necessary for private enterprise is entrepreneurship.

Teach the children to be ENTREPRENEURS. Foster their individuality and creativity instead of killing it by forcing them to "conform". Encourage diverse opinion, even disagreement. Encourage challenges to authority instead of demanding unswerving obedience.

It is time to kill Confucianism off once and for all.

Matilah_Singapura said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Anonymous said...

MS, you talking cock again. You only think of no country, no govt. The govt is there to help themselves not the citizens.

Next you say no family, no inheritance. Family wealth go to other people's smartest kid and not to children of family.

You and your bonker's talk.

Matilah_Singapura said...

You call that an argument?

Please go back to your school and get a refund.

Anonymous said...

Plse get your MBA before you debate or argue with Matilah. Matilah has god given intelligence, dont play play or is it pray pray?
Matilah wont leave anything including money to anybody when he dies, he gaves them away when he is alive. He works hard to give away his money to his honies.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Wow, now you are my spokesperson? You even know about my money matters?

Please don't insult tbe MBA holders. I got PSLE only. and an a very ordinary, average guy.

Anonymous said...

Knn.
No family, no country, successful boss with plenty of money. Give to who when mati ?

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Matilah is a shining example of what no university degree can do to a very clever person. And he only got a PSLE. He is in the company of Bill Gates and those big time billionaires in America. Who needs a degree?

The govt should engage Matilah to replace Singa as the role model or mascot of Singapore and tell the citizens, see, no degree, so clever. And better still, only PSLE.

Veritas said...

To solve the problem of graduate chase is not to limit Singaporean enrollment of university, but to stop FT and create labor crunch in manual labor to drive up their salary.

When I was in germany, I always dream of becoming a security guard or road sweeper, as they are out of office politics and care free.

They are decently paid.

The PAP style of FT policy, inequality, creating a competitive society is totally contradictory to convincing Singaporeans of taking up manual jobs.

Under such system I would urge Singaporeans to try their best to become cognitive elites, instead of hawking.

Today PAP ask us to do hawking, tomorrow they will say we are too stupid for hawking and ask our man to become shit collector and our woman to beocme prostitute.

PAP trick is what Brahmin does to the cleverest dravidians 3500 years ago.

When Aryan gangster came to Indus ganges plain, they subjugate the local. The locals then are the highest civilization in the whole world and most cleverest, creating mohanjo-daro and harrapa.

Them Aryan tell them they are stupid. Slowly Aryan deprive them of good job until today, the dalits are the most stupid people in the world. Their off spring are hereditary shit collector and hereditary prostitute.

We must fight PAP. If we really think we are stupid and think hawking got good future, we will be slowly chip off more and more rights.

Eventually our only career is hereditary prostitute and shit collector.

Veritas said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Veritas said...

I am an EE graduate and I see many problems in our tiertiary education system that PAP refuse to address.

I agree with Matillah that liberal arts and business degree (accountancy is exception) are BS.

When I was in university, the NUS EE was sort of prestigious. The EE degree from NUS/NTU always get very good students.

Today, they are the worst dumping ground in the whole universe, much worse than arts fac that we used to scorn.

When I was in university, the engineering grads often think that arts and biz fac everyday studying bullshit, their woman dress like whore, they party non stop and their woman are lose, they man are horney.

We engineers muck and muck horning our skills in problem solving, very often enduring very little sleep, and keep pumping RED BULL in exams, doing tutorial, staying late at labs at night.

Today, all engineering graduate are so despise that everyone think we are very stupid, working so hard and yet only to find ourselves unemployed after graduation.

FT policy has give bosses unlimited supply of 20 years experience from a slump. Why bothered to pay our graduate high salary and give them a career path. Engineering is hardest hit because in other sector, language and communication barrier give FT some hurdles.

We get all the junk people.

Later when I joined NIE and mix with liberal arts type, I realize how much we have missed. There are a lot of pretty girls who are quite brainless and stupid, always talk LV.

In engineering fac, most of us are poor man son. In NIE, I realize there are many rich girls and boys studying Liberal Arts, cant be bothered to put themselves to suffer in engineering school.

In MOE schools, I realize how dangerous many of the liberal Arts people can be (including many ex-engineers who become teachers).

They are damn stupid, but they are good at manipulating people.

Later as I work longer and gain more experience in both public and private sectors, I realize that our society is sick. In SG working world, its not how capable you are. The most important thing is to play politics and to form gangs.

I travelled alot. I would say in Germany and Israel, its not so serious.

There are many serious problem in our society, and we need to introspect.

Anonymous said...

Let's face it.
Our Millionaire Ministers are out of ideas, vision and courage.

Can only challenge young Singaporeans to be hawkers & crane operators.
Seriously?

How shall I put this delicately to our Millionaire Leeders?
Lead, Follow or Get the fuck out of our way.
Useless parasites.

Matilah_Singapura said...

redbean:

Actually there is a lot of sense to encourage locals to become hawkers. It is a great way to enter the field of small business and entrepreneurship. You don't have to stay a hawker all your life, but there is nothing quite like "on the job training" when it comes to running a private enterprise. You will learn and begin got adopt skills like accounting, marketing, advertising, SELLING, product development, inventory control, customer contact, competition....so many skills in the real world in real time. If you go to B school, you'll pay 100's of thousands.

People gotta eat. And there will always be a demand for good food at a reasonable price.

Crane drivers? I don't know what the pay is in Singapore, but here in Oz you are talking about salaries well into the AUD 100k + area. Same goes for train drivers and truckies who drive the big rigs and road trains. If you are lucky to score jobs as the above on mine site tear-downs, you are looking at pay in the AUD 200k vicinity. work like a dog, sweat like fuck on 8-12 hr shifts in stinky, hot remote areas in the middle of nowhere, but you can make a lot of dough.

What does the crane driver have that the Arts grad or the PMET don't ? MARKETABLE SKILLS. PMETs are coming out by the truckloads in other lower pay Asian cuntrees. Why should employers pay more than they have to? Get fucking real lah.

The game is up for local PMETs. Time to move on and get new skills.

>> it is just another hard truth that the daft Sinkies must accept. It is the real world of money making.

That's right. In the real world of business and capitalism, any gains in productivity and/ or profit by restructuring your production to be more capital efficient, accrues to the OWNERS of capital, not the workers.

The workers can only get what the rest of the labour market is paying. i.e. you get paid what you are worth to the guy signing your paycheck. Don't like that? Then move to another universe ;-)

>> Employ on a need basis, hire and fire, it is simply so efficient and productive.

No, it is more THE FREEDOM to hire and fire as you, the enterprise operator deems according to your plans, not the plans of "society" or "the government".
No one owes anyone a job. Like I said. Get fucking real.

>> Singaporeans who are paying cheaper rates in universities should be discouraged.

Go to uni to get a "real" degree -- like in the hard sciences, medicine, law, accountancy and engineering. If you want to do humanities, arts, etc...all the WORTHLESS degrees, make sure your family is rich and go to uni to party like an animal, get stoned, have plenty of wild sex in the dorms, turn up to class drunk and high, write bullshit on your assignments, because the more bullshit you write, the more marks you'll score in the bullshit courses!

Actually it doesn't matter what you study -- or whether it is for your own erudition or for the paper chase or for the job prospects.

At the end of the day you'll have to convince someone to hire you and then to prove to that person that he made a correct decision, and continues to pay you for what you are worth.

Anonymous said...

The book smart always lose out to the street smart. The timid always get bully by the rascal.
The honest always get conned by the crafty and evil.
The plebeians always get manipulated and exploited by their rulers.
The believers always believe their own imaginations.
The sex maniacs always think they are the best fuckers.
Man and god must all be crazy.

Veritas said...

In PAP caste system society we need to be cognitive elites, never mind if hawking pays well now.

PAP is the only leader in the whole world who wanted our people to be stupid in favor of other tribe.

I give you an example how Indian Brahmin works. Brahmins are the cognitive elites of India and they are the worst scum of human race. Because they are clever, the IIT type all almost 99% Brahmins. Brahmins controls all lever of power in Indian society.

The Indian Brahmin practice "Adam Smith division of Labor". They tell the Dalits "we Brahmin be the brain and Dalits be the feet doing the manual job, when everyone know their place, the society will progress". The is what the so call "Dharmic" theory of Hinduism, especially enshrined by Manusmriti.

The Dalits which has the highest IQ 3500 years ago believe in this BS. Today they got shit big time.

Indian Brahmins caste system is not as rigid as what we believe. The caste can move up and down, depends on how much aggregate power, wealth and prestige the caste(aka race) of the members.

So what Brahmin did is to deprive everyone other than their own tribe of education and wealth as possible.

This is the reason why FT Indians are kicking out Chinese everywhere they go. This is their custom. When they kick out chinese in education, jobs and civil service and replace by their own tribe, the tribe gain power, wealth and prestige and we lost ours.

We are going to be Dalits.

Brahmins leaders fight for their own tribe.

Unfortunately the fucking PAP are relentless in making Singaporeans lost prestige and give all our wealth, education opportunities and prestige to foreigners.

With PAP government, who needs an enemy.

Today, PAP may make it a little profitable to engage in hawking. When all Singaporeans do hawking and become stupid as we are doing all the un-cognitive jobs, the elite jobs will go to FT.

Slowly our brain will degenerate and we will really become stupid. And next, PAP may take away the surplus of hawking through all sorts of rent, tax and financial engineering.

Without cognitive elites among Singaporeans, as in Dalits today, we will got into shit.

We wont even have the mental power and reasoning ability to fight back. We will reason that it is God and Karma who put us into shit. We will not know our predicament is fully fabricated by PAP.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Hi Veritas, there is one major contradiction in your argument. If the Dalits had such IQ, how could they be so daft to let the Brahmins conned them into becoming Dalits and accepted that as their station in life? This is a bit like Confucianism,mandates and destinies.

I find it difficult for such a situation to happen when the more industrious people got removed and made to look stupid and lost their rights to be better economic well being. Then when I look at Malaysian history, it actually happened. When the Malays took over political power, the non Malays became like 'Dalits' in a way, though not that bad, and they have to accept their stations in life.

Can it happen to Sin City when Singaporeans became the new 'Dalits'? Seems unlikely but very highly possible. Imagine that the discrimination in jobs against Singaporeans have been going on for so long by foreigners and daft Singaporeans could hardly do anything about it and got displaced quietly, without resistance. If this continues without any change, yes, Singaporeans can become Dalits in Sin City.

Now that it is discovered, would it mean that Singaporeans will be safe? I am not sure. It all depends on what the govt is going to do about it. If it is just lip service, the Singaporean Dalits can still happen though it may take longer.

Are Singaporeans that stupid when their IQs are higher? What an irony if it really happens. Then Sin City will one day have a public holiday to celebrate the Daft Singaporeans as Dalits Day.

Veritas said...

We knew the Brahmins are Aryans and Dalits are Dravidians. The Mohenjo Daro and Harappan in Hindus valley are the greatest civilization of the day.

No matter how clever a people is, they can always be made stupid by their rulers or circumstances. Before, the Greece is the most clever people, today they are not so clever.

The Aryan then are low IQ nomads, not able to create highly organized society like Hindic valley.

Also the Egyptians were clever, now they have low IQ.

The Bablylonian were clever, their descendant Iraqi has low IQ.

IQ of a tribe is quite fluid. The confucius ethnic of Chinese is very conducive of IQ today, though for some reasons it inhibits IQ for 2000 years.

The Chinese weapon against the rest is our confucius ethnic. Our tradition tell us to work hard, not to believe in Karma. Anything can be resolve by working hard. This is not very true but it give us work ethnic and raise our IQ compared to Dalits who give up because they think they have bad karma.

There is also toxic side of our civilization that give us high IQ. Our woman like $$$ and marry the rich. This is selective breeding. Most rich especially the first generation self made man has high IQ. Also even though subsequent generation of rich has lower IQ, they have monies to provide for education. And confucius ethnic stress education.

This materialistic china girl has serious side effect on our culture but the good point is it selectively breeds higher IQ people. (but its more bad than good)

Veritas said...

I may discuss fluidity further in details, may be in my blog. Our traditional Chinese culture stress education. No matter what, educate.

It is painful to see PAP trying to take down that. For me, even hawker must receive good education. This is good for overall well being.

And we know that Jews are not very smart previously in Roman Time. It is their usury occupation that deals with accounts and risk evaluation that make them evolve. Today they have high IQ.

We cannot let PAP propagate this bullshit. We must stress confucius value on education.

If PAP have their way, we will degenerate.

The best is the German way, Many German receive high education and yet they do manual job. Although it is a great waste of education resources, it has great unmeasurable benefits.

To give up higher education is very very bad for the overall cognitive well being for our tribe.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

There are many aspects of education that are of equal value or more values than just technical or professional value like medicine, engineering, science. Education includes acquiring of knowledge in all fields, teaching of values, morality, righteousness etc etc.

In university education, especially in humanities, the training of the mind, to think and analyse, to be inquisitive, think logically etc is a very vital aspect of university education.

Teach the people to think independently, to think objectively, to think for themselves, to look at facts and things and make intelligent inferences.

Even learning the hard sciences and engineering, without a thinking mind that is open, clear and objective and critical, it will limit the growth of an individual to be a better person.

Think philosophy. It is not a useless, valueless and no market value field of study.

Veritas said...

In Malaysia, Malay are given many high cognitive jobs for example in Petronas where only Malay are welcome.

Today, I do a research on Malay oil engineer from the help of linkedin.

Malay race in Malaysia even though has lower IQ than Chinese are laughing all the way to the banks.

Many Malay petronas engineers got valuable upstream experience, go Gulf states and make lots of $$$$$.

Its not that Chinese are stupid. The lack of opportunities for cognitive job will bring about degeneration in IQ and many lost opportunities.

Today, if Chinese are ban from university in Malaysia. 3 generation later, Malay will definitely have higher IQ than Chinese.

If you work in coffee shop for 3 generation and the Malay in Malaysia work as engineers and executive job, you will have low IQ.

But it is not irreversable. Once the discrimination is removed, our Confucius ethnic of education will raise back our IQ.

Veritas said...

Actually I behave more like a liberal arts people than engineer.

In my opinion we should produce more liberal arts people.

Engineers are like machine and robots. Liberal arts type are the one who make society think and restrict extremism.

I am not against Liberal arts type. But I think our Univeristy liberal arts school is not up to standards and many of our graduates are low quality.

They should spend time doing serious academic work. They should have intellectual conscience.

This is the duty of liberal arts students. The duty of engineer type is to solve problem.

I am not say other countries liberal arts students are good. Most are not. But in elite western liberal art schools, we see a lot of very serious academic. Their works really amaze me.

We have failed to produce hardworking, high quality, truth-seeking and serious liberal arts graduates.

Veritas said...
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Veritas said...
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Veritas said...

Also I am aware of the consequence of over education. The cost impose on society is high.

Instead of getting productive workers at 18 years old, our citizen are still consuming and become productive as late as 26-30 due to education.

Not everyone is smart and motivated to study. To bring these people up to highly educated level is big problem.

But PAP way is simply very despicable and have far reaching consequence.

If such chinese education ethnic is weaken by PAP, we will lost our cognitive edge. For German society, its still ok. Because even if one generation is not educated enough, German system ensures that his off-spring will still have reasonable access to education.

But even in that case, its still a big disadvantage, if one or both parents are not educated. The quality of upbringing of having 2 educated parents are immense.

In Singapore system, if your generation got into poverty, that means your children will not have access to tuition and many intervention scheme, that elites have. These early intervention scheme is what makes elites so formidable before their college education. ( The poor mature later)

Today PAP say hawking is good and profitable. If we go and do hawking and let FT capture all the cognitive jobs, we will not evolve. We will have low IQ. To create advance hawking entrepreneurship like Starbucks, coffee beans need very high cognitive skill.

I am not saying we are over educating is good or hawking is bad. But under PAP caste system, we got to be very careful.

If PAP have the German system, it is still not so bad. Now, if one generation is not educated, its effect could cascade to another. Also how many woman would want to marry non educated hawker?

It is very difficult to explain this topic properly as their are many contradicting elements. To put it short, we can only accept hawking under a totally different social contract, the most important one is removal of FT policy. And education and access to cognitive jobs is what make a tribe strong. Its very immoral to ask Singaporeans to stop chasing paper while imposing such people low salary, meanwhile giving cognitive jobs and education to FT, even if they score lower in NUS/NTU.

Anonymous said...

Veritas, you kept mistyping the word ethics as ethnics.

Matilah_Singapura said...

redbean:

>> In university education, especially in humanities, the training of the mind, to think and analyse, to be inquisitive, think logically etc is a very vital aspect of university education.

Of course it is important. To some extent, so is philosophy. However there are very few marketable skills to be gained in these courses.

And they cost a fortune, being university courses. Why can't some other form of delivery be used?

Because university offers some kind of "prestige value". You tell me an arts grad has more marketable skills than an electrical engineer? Please lah.

Oh no. Study philosophy and get a degree, usually up to PhD, yet can't find a job outside university system. and how much is the cost? Tens or hundreds of thousands if you go overseas. And his PhD in cock-talk pointless philosophy is equivalent to a PhD in Physics? Please lah, that's ridiculous!

There are TOO MANY DEGREES. Sure go and study what you like, but not every field warrants a university qualification. If you got rid of all those "unproductive" degrees, you will have a much better, higher quality university system...and you might even see some Nobel Prize winners and ground-breaking science, tech, engineering and medical breakthroughs come out.

Matilah_Singapura said...

P.S. Going to university to get a PhD in bullshit fields is PURE VANITY.

What? Get a PhD on the basis of your thesis to prove that a chair is not a chair, but actually can be a lion, however a bowl of soup is always a bowl of soup...thesis panel say "Wah, very cheem. OK. Pass. You are now Doctor of Philosophy!!"

Meanwhile the science undergrads are struggling with math until they're bleeding from both ears and living on instant noodles and 3 in 1 kopi.

The not-so-smart strugglers in science are several orders of magnitude smarter than the bullshit-spinning philosophy PhD candidate.

Please lah. Get rid of the nonsense. University started off as being "elitist" -- only the truly smart motherfuckers can go.

Nowadays, any cunt with an ear ring, tatoo and a joint dangling from the mouth can get it. Just pay the fucking money --- or get the TAXPAYER to pay for a grnd old enjoyable time, and come out with ZERO, Nada, zip, zilch, kosong...marketable skills.

$200k of tax payer subsidies for PhD. Then go out and drive taxi.

Fucking ridiculous!!

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Why do you think it is $200k for a PhD? Why Singapore is sinking? Because they are ran by non arts people who think only how to make money, for what? To make more money to make more money and to make more money.

The ass engineers and business trained have a lot of market value but are screwing up the system, people and countries without the humanities people, the people you so often quoted, Ayn Rand, Aristotle, Confucius, Mencius, Lao Tsu, Marx, JS Mills, Adam Smith, and many great eastern and western thinkers that gave value and meaning to life, and they have no market value.

What the world needs according to you should be robots, precision instruments and robots and nothing else. Human beans and humanities are irrelevant and redundant.

Veritas said...
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Anonymous said...

Phd in Philosophy?

Those with commonsense will give them a run for yhe money, some could beat yhrm hands down.

Dont believe ? Ask the PSLE Graduate Matilah.

What the fuck is Phd in Philosophy, any of them get quoted like Philosophers of ANCIENT Time ?



Anonymous said...

Actually the best is to encourage our people to become professional killers and kidnappers and robbers and all sorts of international big time criminals which are in demand all over the world. They reap in the big bucks and can contribute back to the gahmen by buying up the expensive houses and cars and spending lavishly. Moreover there are so many rich people to target here. Why waste money to educate them when there are no suitable jobs for them? Better invest the money that will bring huge returns. Principal or moral not important in this small island. Money is most important whether it is white or black money.

Matilah_Singapura said...

angry redbean:

>> To make more money to make more money and to make more money.

Making more money is much better than not making any at all -- which is what will happen if those dope-smoking "creative" arts people are in-charge.

>> The ass engineers and business trained have a lot of market value but are screwing up the system

Really? Then please destroy your computer, burn your car, furniture and clothes, turn off your water, gas and electricity, throw out all your store-bought food..and run to the nearest jungle to live out your life in harmony with "nature". If you don't have engineers, entrepreneurs and scientists -- like physicists, industrial chemists, biologists and members of the medical sciences, you don't have modern life -- period.

BTW Ayn Rand championed engineers and architects, and also business people. But you don't like her, so it really doesn't matter ;-)

I never said that there was no place for arts in society. But before you have a society, you better have people with the skills to build you a civilization -- and that is mega scientific shit.

Lots of maths. And lots more, and more...it never stops. Have to build machines just to do the math. Meanwhile, you're in the jungle counting bananas and coconuts, and watching monkeys masturbate for entertainment.

Back to the arts -- all I said was you don't have to go to university to get a degree in the arts -- many artists simply had the discipline to develop their passion on their own, or in special art schools -- formal and informal. Art and culture EMERGENT PROPERTIES of civilization (built by engineers).

All you need is the engineers to build the civilizations, managed and financed by the business sector. Great civilizations have galleries, theatres, museums and concert halls, and of course artist districts. Then all that is left to do is to invite the artists, thrown in a few guitars, drums and other musical instruments, paint, brushes, some costumes and scenery, lots of condoms (lots of gay artists who love fucking), and a few drugs..and then a few more...and voila...you have a vibrant colourful society -- creative, quirky, gay, fabulous and magnificent.

No need for arts degrees at universities lah. Waste of time and money, and who the fuck wants "academic" art?!?? Fuck that. Not me. I want art which kicks ass, like the artist put his life on the line to create it. Daring, bold, in my face.

If it doesn't move you EMOTIONALLY, then it probably came from a university. ;-)

Anonymous said...

Especially professional killers in the area of killing those people that consume a lot but no added real value to the society such as politicians, landlords, bankers, lawyers etc.

Matilah_Singapura said...

redbean again,

>> What the world needs according to you should be robots, precision instruments and robots and nothing else.

Try living in a world without robots and precision instruments. Let's see how long you last ;-)

>> Human beans and humanities are irrelevant and redundant.

Most of what is know as "humanities" is utter bullshit.

Many human beings are irrelevant. Some are even redundant ;-) and should be retired ASAP :-)) or they should be encouraged to fuck off, eat shit and die.

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The hard sciences, engineering, must be balanced with the soft sciences of humanities. It is not called humanities for nothing.

The arts in humanities are not paintings and drawings. It is about a very serious thinking of what life and living is all about, about human rights, individual rights, rights of states and govt and a whole lot of life issues and relationship issues.

The hard and soft sciences are all part of a system just like your useless mouth and your useless arse. But you need them both.

Matilah_Singapura said...

redbean, epic fail argument:

>> It is about a very serious thinking of what life and living is all about, about human rights, individual rights, rights of states and govt and a whole lot of life issues and relationship issues.

Yah hor? So must university ah? Waste tax payer's money!

The humanities are areas which all people do participate in, but no academic background is required.

Hard science or die. Ok die lah ;-)

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

The great philosophies do not come about in a kopitiam. The thoughts would need some deep thinking to put them together coherently and meaningfully.

Sometimes too much academics could be a luxury. But if we have the money why not? Read my next post on the fetish luxuries that we are craving for and willing to splash our money for them.

Matilah_Singapura said...

>>
Sometimes too much academics could be a luxury.


Yes, true. But too many academics (most of the fakers) also "dilutes" the value of higher learning and the degrees they hand out.

You also cause an "education bubble". Tertiary education costs have been rising faster than the markets, CPI and economic growth. It is sheer madness.

You can get a real education without getting a degree. We see this time and time again. It is so common it's not even worth debating anymore.

Opportunities to better yourself have never been more available -- in the whole of human history. You can start from nothing, dirt poor, and build yourself up. In previous times, you stay in the slot you were born in. Now all of us are "upwardly mobile" -- despite the occasional loss of job or whatever.

So those PAP fuckers are right: university -- not that important anymore.

Matilah_Singapura said...

Here's the controversy : The Higher Education Bubble

Veritas said...

I like humanity and philo.

Unfortunately NUS/NTU does not have any professor of intellectual conscience and they are too lazy.

All liberal art type scholars publish lots of books and lots of paper.

Our professor are very lazy. How many respectable works have they publish other than rubbish?

And do our professor really love their students and impart good knowledge other than sprouting bullshit is another.

In many post-graduate class, close to 99% are FT. There are no no professors other than NUS/NTU who hate their student so much that they do not take them as post-graduate.

Then NUS/NTU professor come out with lies that "Singaporeans not interested doing post grad".

And did our liberal arts students really learn and internalize from college is another question. Do they have intellectual conscience? Do they speak the truth?

Their professor set very bad example. 99% are ball carrier of PAP talking lies. In USSR you still have Sakharov (he is engineer type intellect) and many others who are not afraid of gulag and death. Where is our Sakharov? These brave soul type are those that move USSR forward.

Do we really have liberal arts education is one problem.

I see big degeneration in our people.

Anonymous said...

'I see big degeneration in our people'

- if that includes degeration to the point of threatening the papayas and elites, it may not be too bad after all.

- if the Germans were a bit smarter, they should not have started the wars but worked with the dutch to regain back the territories robbed by the english. The people in SE asia will probably be better off being colonised by them rather than by their own kind now.

Anonymous said...

:Matilah_Singapura

I do agree that govt's comment that securing a degree does not guarantee one's employment-ability.

However the issue here is why did the govt increase
local and foreign PMET yearly together if they know there is a big problem?

Also eventually number of these Degree holders
cannot find a job will have to grab from jobs that usually hold by Diploma
holders. And Diploma graduate look at the ITE.
Is not that depress
the WHOLE market and living standard.
To be entrepreneur is a easy talk, because it depend if there is market.

Matilah_Singapura said...

@933:

>> However the issue here is why did the govt increase
local and foreign PMET yearly together if they know there is a big problem?


To get a true answer, you will have to ask them ;-) Then maybe not.

However, I will speculate: simplest reason (no need for conspiracy theory) -- A MISTAKE by policy makers -- left hand don't know what right hand is doing. It happens all the time -- you do it, I do it -- and mostly it is no problem or a very small matter.

However when the government does it, and because the government is big, its mistakes have BIG CONSEQUENCES for a large portion of the population.

>> To be entrepreneur is a easy talk,

ALL TALK is "easy" talk. No action, no result. Can talk until the stars explode. No change. People talk of changing the government. All talk. Government is still there, 50 years later.

>> because it depend if there is market.

There is ALWAYS a market :-)

Chua Chin Leng aka redbean said...

Matilah, this is a well thought out policy, not masak, masak. We just do not know their true objectives and the govt will not tell. There must be reasons for doing it.

Every policy is thought through before implementation, for sure, especially such a big and far reaching policy that can sink the island.

Matilah_Singapura said...

redbean,

Occam's Razor. The simplest explanation is often closer to the truth -- no need to over complicate matters by introducing more stuff you can't prove.

The Singapore government is many things, but one thing they are is CRYTAL CLEAR -- they don't hide the reasons from anyone, even the insane reasons based on myth -- they'll tell you straight: "We don't want a free press because a free press can stir up shit and threaten the security of the cuntry".

So I'd say it was a simple policy change or a big-fucking human error that had the education system pumping out PMETs, whilst another policy involves the importation of PMETs.

Anyway, PMET training is usually quite good -- at least it gives you the skills to be an entrepreneur.

So those local displaced PMETs definitely have many "advantages" , only too many are still too emotional to see their real potential.

“I am often accused of interfering in the private lives of citizens. Yes, if I did not, had I not done that, we wouldn't be here today. And I say without the slightest remorse, that we wouldn't be here, we would not have made economic progress, if we had not intervened on very personal matters - who your neighbour is, how you live, the noise you make, how you spit, or what language you use. We decide what is right. Never mind what the people think.”

Anybody who decides to take me on needs to put on knuckle dusters. If you think you can hurt me more than I can hurt you, try. There is no other way you can govern a Chinese society.”

― Lee Kuan Yew

How much more "crystal clear" can you get?

Matilah_Singapura said...

BTW, the PAP have cocked up population and labour policies before.

Start with the "stop at 2 policy" of the 1960's and 1970's. Then the over supply of locally trained doctors in the 1990's -- doctors encouraged to leave govt employ, the bond waived. Then in the 1970's the over supply of aircraft engineers for SIA -- entire classes told their services no longer required.

Simple human error. With big consequences.

patriot said...

When a fuck-up driver is in control of the steering wheel, the co-driver and all in the vehicle are in grave danger.

patriot